Curse

SlappedYak · Mar 16, 2011, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Hey everyone,

Here's an enraged volley based 7hero build I've been trying out for generic pve HM useage (dungeons, vanq'ing etc) . I'd love to get some constructive criticism on it; it is it's ok at the moment...but I'm pretty sure it could be better

(and I know running two mes, two rits, 3 necs is probably better, but I really wanted to try out something along the lines of the old b/p of old... so just humour me! :P)

Works around this base:
3 x R/any heroes
(Volley, enraged lunge, scavenger's strike, charm animal, 4 optionals)

Optional slots:
1. Interupt - so either savage/distracting or leech signet
2. Stance - like lightning or dodge to up DPS and add some blocking
3. Either another arrow attack or pet buff - like otyugh's cry, CoP or something
4. Slot for throw dirt or favourable winds or a rez of course.

1 x N/Mo generic hero jagged minion bomber

1 x Rt/Mo empathetic smite rt support

1 x Rt/Mo SoS spirit spammer

1 x E/N EN Orders
OR run the second rt as SoGM orders (in which case drop E/N hero and use the extra slot for maybe a comandagon p/-)

The player build could be pretty much anything that includes EotN pve skills to buff the rangers (like Ebon Battle Standard, Great Dwarf Weapon)

So what does everyone think? I don't really like doing the whole three rangers with the same build... I think there's definitely scope for flexibility tho.

Thanks

Khomet Si Netjer · Mar 16, 2011, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlappedYak

Hey everyone,

Here's an enraged volley based 7hero build I've been trying out for generic pve HM useage (dungeons, vanq'ing etc) . I'd love to get some constructive criticism on it; it is it's ok at the moment...but I'm pretty sure it could be better

(and I know running two mes, two rits, 3 necs is probably better, but I really wanted to try out something along the lines of the old b/p of old... so just humour me! :P)

Works around this base:
3 x R/any heroes

[OgATY3LmXCMEAAAAAQWC3g2AAAA]
(Volley, enraged lunge, scavenger's strike, charm animal, 4 optionals)

Optional slots:
1. Interupt - so either savage/distracting or leech signet
2. Stance - like lightning or dodge to up DPS and add some blocking
3. Either another arrow attack or pet buff - like otyugh's cry, CoP or something
4. Slot for throw dirt or favourable winds or a rez of course.

1 x N/Mo generic hero jagged minion bomber

[OANDUslfSLVVBoBbhKg1DBEVVA]

1 x Rt/Mo empathetic smite rt support

[OAOj4wiM5MYMvpb1MyMLnzjLGA]

1 x Rt/Mo SoS spirit spammer

[OACjEyiM5MXzyZ1kZOMlmTuLGA]

1 x E/N EN Orders
[OgRDQ6tsK1CtYITyQXGWybA] OR run the second rt as SoGM orders [OASjQsiMpNYMv5QzQMJYmXzLGA](in which case drop E/N hero and use the extra slot for maybe a comandagon p/-)

The player build could be pretty much anything that includes EotN pve skills to buff the rangers (like Ebon Battle Standard, Great Dwarf Weapon)

So what does everyone think? I don't really like doing the whole three rangers with the same build... I think there's definitely scope for flexibility tho.

Thanks

I think you could get really strong damage out of this, AoE damage with Volley and spammable deep wound with Enraged Lunge is win/win. I would probably bring an Rt/N or N/Rt instead of the E/N, since your rangers don't need adrenaline you can go with Order of the Vampire and get lifestealing for everyone and it is less costly than Order of Pain. Put OotV, Blood Bond, and Splinter Weapon on that character and you have some serious damage being delivered by the rangers. Obviously add EBSoH and Favorable Winds and Winnowing since you have so much physical damage going on... with all that put together you should have up to 17 lifestealing and +25 armor ignoring damage on every arrow, not counting splinter or bonus damage or other buffs. Put Otyugh's Cry on all rangers, it will make the pets very durable and make everything unblockable. Give the rangers Crossfire and they will be unblockable almost all the time too. If conditions are good then you could be burning through Splinter Weapon very quickly with this crew, you might consider taking two characters that can distribute Splinter amongst the rangers.

Braxton619 · Mar 16, 2011, 04:35 AM // 04:35

I'm not going to decode all those for you. Please download this application and put all the builds on teambuild.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10391290.html

Rites · Mar 16, 2011, 07:40 AM // 07:40

you can also use this: http://www.gwteambuilder.de/en/

i never used it, but i've heard others like it

personally i use pawned2

SlappedYak · Mar 16, 2011, 10:13 AM // 10:13

-ok, sorry, never used pawned2 or nething like that before, I'll put the builds up in an edit! Justa sec-

SlappedYak · Mar 16, 2011, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

I think you could get really strong damage out of this, AoE damage with Volley and spammable deep wound with Enraged Lunge is win/win. I would probably bring an Rt/N or N/Rt instead of the E/N, since your rangers don't need adrenaline you can go with Order of the Vampire and get lifestealing for everyone and it is less costly than Order of Pain. Put OotV, Blood Bond, and Splinter Weapon on that character and you have some serious damage being delivered by the rangers. Obviously add EBSoH and Favorable Winds and Winnowing since you have so much physical damage going on... with all that put together you should have up to 17 lifestealing and +25 armor ignoring damage on every arrow, not counting splinter or bonus damage or other buffs. Put Otyugh's Cry on all rangers, it will make the pets very durable and make everything unblockable. Give the rangers Crossfire and they will be unblockable almost all the time too. If conditions are good then you could be burning through Splinter Weapon very quickly with this crew, you might consider taking two characters that can distribute Splinter amongst the rangers.

Seems an insane amount of physical damage! I tried running your suggestions on this kind of base:

Works a lot better than the E/N so thanks

I think the rangers need a bit of a survivability boost - maybe lightning? or throw dirt (although AI + throw dirt....) I saw someone use traps on their heroes to protect the backline, seems reasonable as they have a high exp anyway?

**Marty Silverblade** · Mar 16, 2011, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Don't have time to comment on the above setup atm, but MoP is Curses, not Blood or SR. Barbs is Curses too. Also, two copies of Bloodsong is pointless; casting one will remove the other. I'd drop the one on the SoS, because Splinter is significantly more powerful at 14 than at 12. Drop the copy on the Orders to compensate.

SlappedYak · Mar 16, 2011, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

setup atm, but MoP is Curses

Oops, total brain fart >.< course it is! Ok, I've changed it again, added in a possible build for a ranger human player - like a mid/back line trapper as well as a GDW/EBSoH spreader incase monsters break through a pet/minion wall

Oh and thanks for all the help so far

Xiaquin · Mar 16, 2011, 04:22 PM // 16:22

I think I would go with Keen Arrow over Crossfire, maybe even Sloth Hunter's since energy shouldn't be a problem.

Also (unless I've missed it) you should be inflicting cracked armor. Weaken Armor can go with the Orders necro (though how well his management will be needs to be tested).

Maybe an interrupt or two between the rangers?

Kafiri_Mkorogai · Mar 16, 2011, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Do you find the trapping necessary often, or is the pet/minion wall generally sufficient to keep foes at bay? I rarely find a justifiable excuse to use trapping in pve (or haven't in... 4 years?) and it might be fun to pull a trapping build out of the dustbin for goofing off

.

Showtime · Mar 16, 2011, 05:25 PM // 17:25

no traps imo. you might as well join in with all the damage being dealt.

pets then spirits should cover you even if minions take a bit to get out there. bring ebon ward for defense if you want extra. evas if you are having problems at the start.

higher level splinter from sos rit.

i like needling shot, but havent tried it with heros.
a d shot or 2 since no mesmers...

depending on how your mm does, aotl (tougher minions) instead of jagged and fiends range attacks will work well. i keep high hp on my mm's and will run foul feast if i need condition removal.

Khomet Si Netjer · Mar 16, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlappedYak

Seems an insane amount of physical damage! I tried running your suggestions on this kind of base:

Works a lot better than the E/N so thanks

I think the rangers need a bit of a survivability boost - maybe lightning? or throw dirt (although AI + throw dirt....) I saw someone use traps on their heroes to protect the backline, seems reasonable as they have a high exp anyway?

You're welcome.

This team is very light on healing, your SoS is only a partial healer and the other ritualist has only minor healing. I'd suggest replacing the Rt/Mo with a dedicated healing build and putting that copy of Splinter on one of the necromancers. I'm not a big fan of sabway style N/Mo so I'd probably switch that to N/Rt and put Splinter there. If you do that you'll have 1 dedicated healer and 1 partial which should be plenty given the amount of minions, spirits and pets you are bringing with you. If you put Foul Feast and Infuse Conditions on that N/Rt he can take care of the conditions too.

Also Aura of the Lich >> Jagged Bones in my experience. If all of your minions get blown up by AoE damage AotL can rebuild an army instantly. Jagged Bones will have a harder time maintaining the army if conditions are bad. Don't take my word for it though, try both and keep track of how many minions are being controlled before and after battles.

Outerworld · Mar 16, 2011, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Hmmm why do you have both OotV and OoP?

Edit: nvm you've changed it.

Rites · Mar 17, 2011, 04:07 PM // 16:07

gotta agree with Khomet.. Aura of the lich will build your army faster, but i have found that i had to micro it cuz the AI will use it as soon as theres a dead body around just like it was a normal minion summoning

SlappedYak · Mar 18, 2011, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

no traps imo. you might as well join in with all the damage being dealt.

Yeh, agreed. I tried running the whole trapping thing and just found it quite frustrating to not be able to join in really!

I've been trying a mass cripple build (here's the link to the forum thread - barrage + harrier's grasp... http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...t10471171.html) on the player, which is fun and seeing as I find pet AI to be a bit rubbish on moving targets, slowing them with crip is fun (I still like conditions in pve :P)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

You're welcome.

This team is very light on healing, your SoS is only a partial healer and the other ritualist has only minor healing. I'd suggest replacing the Rt/Mo with a dedicated healing build and putting that copy of Splinter on one of the necromancers. I'm not a big fan of sabway style N/Mo so I'd probably switch that to N/Rt and put Splinter there.

Yeh, it is pretty light on healing, not really a problem once you get a minion wall going bulike you said with jagged bones it does take longer to build up an army and once the minion/pet wall dies we did have a tendency to get a bit owned... I'll try making those tweaks and let you know if the survivability gets any better

Thanks again everyone!

haha also, just seen a practically identical thread going on...great minds eh? >.<
(--> http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/r...t10474172.html)

SlappedYak · Mar 18, 2011, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafiri_Mkorogai

Do you find the trapping necessary often, or is the pet/minion wall generally sufficient to keep foes at bay? I rarely find a justifiable excuse to use trapping in pve (or haven't in... 4 years?) and it might be fun to pull a trapping build out of the dustbin for goofing off

.

Yeh, I dusted off the trapping build to see if it would work here and yes it does...but generally it's a waste >.< even if the pet/minion wall dies then the SoS spirits also nicely mess up enemy AI I've found so I just reflag behind a spirit wall to buy some time! That said I have seen some guys running dust traps on their ranger heroes... seems to work ok, but I'm going to change my player build to join in on the damage dealing >.<

Kunder · Mar 18, 2011, 03:26 PM // 15:26

There's absolutely no way you can manage your energy with that build. Rangers get 1 energy per second. EBSoH costs 10e/20s, and GDW costs 30e/20s to upkeep on all the rangers, another 10e/20s to upkeep on one pet. Expertise doesn't affect them, so you are spending at least 2x as fast as you can regain it even with 6 empty skill slots on your bar. You really need a caster with high energy management (SoS Rit/Necro/ER Ele) to do this stuff well. Even Scavenger's Strike isn't going to bring in enough energy to keep you afloat. Maybe you could do it with Marksman's wager, but thats horribly suboptimal.

Also, GDW overrides SW and vice-versa. Sucks, I know

. Technically if you had the energy you could cover 4 allies with GDW while the rits spam SW on the other two, but I definitely wouldn't trust the AI to handle things that well.

Heroes are fairly shitty at using Spirit Siphon. If your SoH is maintaining more than 1 enchant then his energy will never be high enough to cast anything worthwhile. Heck, theres a good chance they won't have enough energy even with 0 maintained enchants, heroes spam Ancestor's Rage and SW like mad (which is great, but not when you run dry on energy).

With EBSoH there is no reason not to have a MM that leans more towards fiends, who have greater survivability, higher attack rate, and will stand in EBSoH for extra damage per shot. + damage to an entire minion army adds up ridiculously fast as you might imagine.

Heroes are fairly shitty at using Scavenger's Strike on their own, be prepared to micro it. And micro is an absolute bitch because you have to keep track of where their pets are and what they are attacking, but don't want to train the same enemy with all 3 pets because then Enranged Lunge loses half of its potency since 3 Deep Wounds won't stack.

SlappedYak · Mar 18, 2011, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

There's absolutely no way you can manage your energy with that build. Rangers get 1 energy per second. EBSoH costs 10e/20s, and GDW costs 30e/20s to upkeep on all the rangers, another 10e/20s to upkeep on one pet. Expertise doesn't affect them, so you are spending at least 2x as fast as you can regain it even with 6 empty skill slots on your bar. You really need a caster with high energy management (SoS Rit/Necro/ER Ele) to do this stuff well. Even Scavenger's Strike isn't going to bring in enough energy to keep you afloat. Maybe you could do it with Marksman's wager, but thats horribly suboptimal.

Yeup, e-management even with a staff or caster set was an issue. Probably easier to drop the whole GDW thing unless the player is a caster prof. I mean I think prep shot + scavengers strike on the pet could be enough but then your point about GDW conflicting with SW I also agree with, so at the moment I'll be sticking with SW

and just joining in on the dmg dealing front on my ranger...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

With EBSoH there is no reason not to have a MM that leans more towards fiends, who have greater survivability, higher attack rate, and will stand in EBSoH for extra damage per shot. + damage to an entire minion army adds up ridiculously fast as you might imagine.

Definitely agree, and as other people have suggested going AotL on the MM, I've done that instead. I'll post a tweaked build with the most recent comments everyone has given in a bit

Amy Awien · Mar 18, 2011, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Scavenger's Focus or Marksman Wager could possible fill your energy needs - they're overkill for usual ranger builds but might be enough if you're planning on running stuff that would drain a caster.

Each has advantages, Marksman Wager is in Expertise and would not require you to spec into anything you're not allready using - but it's a preparation. Scavenger's Focus is in Wilderness Survival which is also home to Serpents Quickness and thus even more casts of GDW and EBSoH - heh.

Just a thought - haven't tried it.

Rites · Mar 19, 2011, 10:36 PM // 22:36

prepared shot @ 12 marks and with a prep gives you +7 energy every 6 secs as well as +22 damage

most bow wielders have marks up high as possible anyway, downside is its an elite